It’s Not What you Say, It’s How You Say It… or a Tale of Two Rogues…

Let me relate a couple of stories that have happened since LFD came out. I’m the tank in both situations.

Situation 1:
*zone in to OK… internal groan*
Me: Short instance or all the bosses?
Person 1: Short
Person 2: Short
Person 3: Short
Rogue: *silence*

We clear trash and move past the first boss… and that’s when it starts.
Rogue: WTF are we skipping the first boss?
Person 3: Yes, 3 of us want to skip it
Rogue: But that’s not fair! I just hit 80 and you’re selfish! *proceeds to pull two more groups FOR the tank and nearly wipe the group* Are we really skipping the first boss???!!! But I NEED it… [and this goes on and on with his 800 dps]

Situation 2:
*zone into HoS and I mentally groan*
Me: Short version or full version?
Person 1: Short
Person 2: Shrot
Person 3: “I second shrot”
Rogue: I still need the elder in here. Could we possibly clear that wing as well?” [The rogue then proceeds to use TotT properly, not pull threat and not pull extra groups FOR me with 1000 dps]

Do I really have to tell you which person was eventually votekicked and which one got their full clear? The convo in situation 2 continued as such:

Person 2: I need the elder as well and he’s right near the boss.
Person 3: Yeah and maiden just takes 2 minutes, but idc.

Will you always get what you want by asking nicely? Not 100% of the time. But in the instances where I’ve seen 3/4 people in the group [excluding my tank self] vote for short clear and the last person calmly asks for a full clear, or extra, usually the group will do the extra content. There’s only been a case or two, where the majority opinion was held to… and well… it’s the majority opinion.

It’s like I can handle a hunter in average ilevel 170 gear pulling 1100 dps… obviously having JUST hit 80… but who has a great attitude and is dpsing my target and generally being pleasant. I wouldn’t tolerate the same hunter with a filthy, abusive mouth. Heck, I’ve kicked 6k dpsers for being complete jerks…

Attitude goes a long way toward getting extra help/extra bosses/etc. Being obnoxious or a jerk is a fast route to a vote kick… or if it’s a kind group – to finish ASAP.

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Author: Askevar

Raid leader and Tank. Also is an altoholic

16 thoughts on “It’s Not What you Say, It’s How You Say It… or a Tale of Two Rogues…”

  1. I totally get your point…but I also kinda feel for Guy #1. We raiders have gotten to the point where we do the daily heroic just to get our badges, and view it as a daily “chore” to knock off the checklist. Sometimes when I zone in and I see someone still in blues and doing under-par DPS, I forget where I really am…this is where they GET the gear…the same way we got OUR gear. I understand that the guy being a jerk didn’t make things go well. If I put myself in his shoes for a minute, I can imagine queing up for the dungeon with the full expectation that I am going to be matched with a group of 4 other people who also intend to spend time on the dungeon…not there just for the end-boss frost badges, but for the badges *and* gear along the way. There is a period when you first zone in where it’s like half the people are lost in the ether. Sometimes it takes a while to even show them in party frames, sometimes it takes a while for them to show up in party chat. Imagining that it’s entirely possible the person, a relative newb to being L80, if not the game, itself, has all trade/LFG/guild chat enabled, your party chat could have been there and gone by before he ever realized it was even being brought up. It sounds to me like he was caught off guard and nervous, trying to run around and do things while also typing, all in an effort to convince four other people who were in disagreement with him to do the instance as intended, which easily could have resulted in pulls (butterfingers!). This dude waited maybe 15 minutes to get in the instance, only to find himself with a bunch of people who totally out-geared him, but were willing to help him get gear if he asked nice. To be votekicked after all that? Well, I really do get your point, and I get your perspective…but you know what? I get his, too. : )

    1. I haven’t forgotten where we came from… I have 10 80s… in various stages of gearing – one of every class. From my dk tank in ICC gear to my rogue in 187 blues and crafted epics. Being undergeared is not an excuse for bad behavior or for being a jerk.

      I’ve been “that” person who does 1500 dps on trash pulls and who could use the badges or gear off the bosses.

      And as a tank, I’m there to take abuse from mobs… not other players.

      1. Being called selfish is the least of the names I’ve been called. Tank and healer abuse for no reason is far too common. I’ve seen it from all different roles. But you’re certainly entitled to your opinion.

        Newbs [players new to the game] are usually quite easy to recognize and usually aren’t sporting several heirloom items. Shrug. But eh.

  2. Daily random heroics are not the place to drag your new 80 and have folks gear you up. . .A guild has a purpose and it’s to help it’s members by crafting gear and running heroics to gear their members toons. So if you’re looking for gear, group up with your guild and run that way.

    One person should not dictate to the group, and if they vote 4 to 1 to go fast, well the masses have spoken and you just need to get the badges you can or leave the group and find one that fits your needs.

    1. I have heard a lot of people talk about how they leveled toons “solo” because of the elitist attitude of guilds (obviously, they were in the wrong ones). A person who doesn’t rely on their guild in the manner you specified (which is a perfectly reasonable way to obtain gear) might instead have stood in a major city and spammed LFG and trade channels to find a group willing to go in from their realm. In my opinion, the daily random heroic isn’t built to run through quickly, skipping bosses and getting frost badges. Though the mechanics allow it to be run that way (and I do that with my guild by joining as a party and doing a daily random), it also allows people who don’t belong to guilds (or can’t count on their guilds) to find others interested in running a heroic-level instance, by pulling from an entire battlegroup. No longer are the days of standing in a city for an hour crying out for help.

      I don’t think the issue here is “going fast”, it’s skipping content. Well, the true issue here is completely separate (it’s about how being nice can get you so much more willingness from others to help – which is totally true). I personally disagree that the person should leave a group that outvotes them and find one that fits their needs. It might seem a little backwards, but that one person is there to run the instance as intended. Unless they’re a tank or healer, they waited a long time for the privilege of getting into that group.

      I think we all have unique perspectives based on the mains we have spent more time focusing on. I think my opinions are based on knowing people who have experienced things, or having experienced these things myself, and remembering how that felt. Oh, did I mention I’m a carebear? :p I know…you couldn’t tell. :p

      1. Unfortunately the way WoW has set up the random daily, just getting to the final boss is the ultimate goal to get the rewards for the run, not completing the whole instance. If what you suggest, completing the entire instance is the goal, then frost emblems rewards should be for a full clear, not just the end boss.

        Until that changes, people should look to guilds for full runs and not pugs that are running mainly to gain frost emblems. When I’m running a poorly geared alt, I’m looking to run with guild members and reciprocate in kind to help their toons as well.

        We can look at any perspective of newbs, alts, or mains. . .the truth remains the same for most pugs, get to the end boss and get the reward. No one person will always get what they want or need out of a pug grouping. It’s a grouping of convenience that allows you to run now or in the next 20 mins. If there is a primary goal you seek in an instance or raid, then form a group that meets your specific needs. Yes, it’s hard for a solo player to do that, but this in not solitaire environment, it’s an MMO.

    2. Just to play devil’s advocate, then, shouldn’t you be the one relying on your guild for emblem runs? It seems to me that if you want quick easy emblem runs a guild run would be a quicker, smoother option than most any PuG the LFD tool will assign to you. That’s certainly been my experience, at any rate.

      By the way, Blizzard designed the random tool to mix players that are overgeared with those that are appropriately geared. They *expect* you to help lift them to upgrades and badges. Heroics are and always have been intended to be the introduction to gearing up for raids. That hasn’t changed.

      All of that being said, the original point still stands: if you want to change the group’s mind about skipping bosses, “please and thank you” tends to work better than a temper tantrum.

  3. I take abuse quite well.
    Leaving DPS dead on the ground and all.
    I’m not there to take crap from anyone, I’m there to go in, kill what needs to be killed and get out.
    If a random pug from x server asks me( key word there, asks) if we can do the full instance, I’ll comply happily and do a full clear.
    But if that person demands it and starts to get abusive you know I’m not going to do it.
    I’m viscous to people who give me attitude in a 5man pug.
    I had 2 today that happily let die on the last boss in Gundrak after I politely asked them to stop pulling for me. They didn’t, so they ate the boss.
    I’m more than capable of DPS’ing it down by myself.
    DPS needs to get their head of their asses and THANK those people who still use the LFG to tank and heal.

    1. Not all DPS have their heads in there asses, Inq. I’m very appreciative when I’m on my DK and get a tank and healer that are competant. One could argue anyone in the party could potentially have the wrong attitude and be a jerk. I’ve heard of healers pulling for tanks before because the tank is ‘going too slow.’ Everyone can be a jerk.

      Sadly, I’ve gotten to the point in PuG’s where I say my ‘Hello!” and “Ty for the group!” and otherwise, aim to keep my head down and do my job the best I can so people can’t (well, shouldn’t) yell at me or curse me out or anything.

      Back on point: I think politeness and asking nicely will get anyone in a group far. I’m pretty amenable to doing whatever a group is up for in an instance. Helping folks get better gear by doing all the bosses? Fine by me. It’s when people get all rude or pitch a fit or curse people out that I have a problem. And sadly, these days, that means I have alot of problems.

      1. “Back on point: I think politeness and asking nicely will get anyone in a group far.”

        This was the entire point of my post lol. Being undergeared isn’t a reason to be rude, neither is being overgeared. The last two days I’ve tanked 3 full HoS runs and 1 full OK run because the majority of the group wanted the full run. Everyone was quite nice about it 🙂

        I’m actually enjoying tanking randoms again by using my warrior. For some reason, people seem to be more understanding of warriors gearing up.

  4. I can understand this perfectly. Most people are in it for the quick run and the frost emblems, but most groups are willing to grab an extra triumph or spend a few extra minutes to help you out if you ask nicely. Just the other day I was in OK on my mage and I said “hey guys, can we please do Aminatar? It’s the only one I need for the achievement” Not only did we do it, but I got congratulations from the rest of the group for getting the achievement. It only took us a few extra minutes and everyone left happy.
    A lot of players are a lot nicer than they are given credit for. I think a great many of us are kind and sharing at heart, but have been burned one too many times by the selfish players or jerks that are, unfortunately, quite a bit more vocal, leading us to put up something of a defensive front. But you’re absolutely right that, just as the old saying goes, a little kindness can go a long way.

  5. I was the second rogue! Errr, except for it not being me and I not being a rogue. But I had the exact same situation in HoS. I needed the Elder and everyone else was “short please.” All I said was “I’d appreciate it we could do the wing with the elder in, because I need him but no pressure.” And everyone was perfectly happy to do it – I was astonished and grateful 🙂

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