The Death of 25 Man Raiding.

Half of me feels relieved [and guilty for saying that] and half of me is astounded and bewildered.

In Cataclysm, 10 and 25 man raids WILL SHARE THE SAME LOCKOUT and WILL HAVE THE SAME LOOT.

And here, I work and organize every week to make our 25 man raids happen for the guild.  Gotta have enough people, gotta have enough online and gotta have the right makeup to get stuff done. 

It’s an organizational nightmare for a lot of guilds.  Our guild fills out the roster pretty readily, but there’s also the QQ of having to leave people out for random reason – not geared enough or just too many signups.  But, despite the frustration, I do enjoy the 25 man raids.  It’s a time where a large portion of our guild is online and interacting and just having a blast.  We’re all chatting in raid and some in vent.  Joking, ribbing, and well… socializing whilst we take on big bad monsters as one big family. 

But on the other hand, I’m not going to be interested in giving up my 10 man interactions.  All our ten man teams are or are becoming smaller families, pockets of familiarity, comfort zones.  They are a smaller place where we can show more of ourselves and be sillier, chat on vent a little more freely and adventure.  It’s a “fellowship of the ten” where the 25 mans are the neighborhood “chuch social” with a bit more structure :P.

Our guild thrives on both.  We’re not super progression – but progression is not our foremost goal.  We definitely want to keep moving forward – keep making progress – keep trying and keep learning, but our goal is to have fun.  Yes, there are always frustrations.  People are tired and not wanting to dance, bigger room for mistakes in some cases… more chances for mistakes, but it’s all been worth it.  We go through our weeks in our little families, sometimes crossing and converging as alts are roped into vacancies, but on the weekend, we all get together for a larger gathering and thrown out of our “elements”.

I foresee most of our members, if forced to choose, to be more interested in staying with the ten mans, rather than going through the frustration that a 25 man can sometimes be, despite the possible higher reward, and, to be honest, I’d be among those.  Our 10 mans are regular teams and seem to have better communciation if someone can’t show.  They KNOW they’re going to run on that team unless they discuss with the raid leader ahead of time.  Because of overload of signups/no shows, people don’t always know that they’re going to be there or be in the 25 man raids.  To a point, I can approve signups, but I also have to take into account that healers are a necessity – so I may have to leave some “wiggle room” to bring [unnamed healer] over regular dps to make sure we have enough.  Or I may have to ask someone else to swap roles, upsetting my balance once more.  25 mans are a lot more work and a lot more juggling.  I’m glad we don’t have attendance requirements – but on the same notion, that can pose some problems for raid makeup.  And trust me, I don’t like leaving ANYONE out.

Supposing that we do move to 10 mans, that would be to our advantage in some cases – 30 signups for a 25 man would translate nicely into 3 10 mans – presuming adequate healers/tanks.  But then, in that case, Blizzard, our guild isn’t going to have it’s “social” on the weekend is it?  At least not the same kind. 

Tis a pity and I will mourn the death of the 25 man raids.

For now though, I’m going to enjoy the game as it is RIGHT NOW.  Headaches, and triumphs all.  None of this is set in stone yet.  😀  Don’t let a possible future ruin the enjoyment of the now.


Author: Askevar

Raid leader and Tank. Also is an altoholic

5 thoughts on “The Death of 25 Man Raiding.”

      1. I don’t really understand this change. My own guild runs several 10 man teams as well as a 25 man, and folks like being able to participate in both.

        Though I guess this change will encourage alt rolling, I suppose.

  1. I must be playing the same game that they are, then, because, even though my gut reaction is “so why bother with 25 mans?” when I stop to think about it, it’s a very good change for the reality that I face in game. I have 2 active ICC 10-man groups (one on my paladin, one on my priest). Both struggle (and often fail) to keep a 10-man roster full. One has dismissed 25s outright on account of not enough people and the other is in a constant struggle to pull together a 25 (even bringing under-talented/under-geared people nobody wants in the raid just to get 20-something bodies in raid). The end result? Why bother with 25s now?

    The answer to both, to paraphrase GC, is basically this: because you enjoy spending time together and (hopefully) have some clue what you’re doing. So to give an opinion on the other side, I think it’ll be a nice change of pace not to have the pressure of trying to form together a 25-man that the guild/group isn’t ready for, roster-wise, simply because some people want the better gear or 25-man titles/rewards. Frankly, I’m picturing a relief of the pressure that comes with the attitude that “only 25s count” when it comes to raiding.

    My only real concern with the sharing of a lockout is that it’s not unusual for me to use my 10 and 25 saves for different purposes. For example, I’ll do a 25 for the weekly and a 10 for progression/fun (depending on the raid) or to fill in a gap for a friend/guildmate. For example, recently I joined a 25 ToC that was saved to a point *after* the weekly was completed. I didn’t mind to get saved because I could still do the 10 for the weekly. Thus my biggest fear with the single lockout system is that a friend will say “Hey can you come heal [raid name]” and I’ll have to say “no, sorry” rather than “sure, I never use my 25-man save on that instance anyway” or else give up my shot at my weekly raid emblems/points.

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